Leaving churchianity
5 September 10
We didn’t set out to separate ourselves from churchianity. But since we’ve moved away from religious institutions into a life of true freedom in Christ that we like to call “unchurching”, we can hardly recall what attracted us to attending religious meetings in the first place.

Background
David grew up in a very religious family. His parents drove their four sons to church every Sabbath (Saturday) an hour-and-a-half away. They believed “their church” was the only true church, and they had to go a long distance to meet with like believers. Nevertheless, David was not really introduced to the Bible’s truths while he was at home, and was ruled with legalism.
I also grew up in a very religious family “on the mission field”. My parents were missionaries in West Africa, and our goal was to “convert the lost”, backed up by the financial donations of churches and individuals back in Australia. I attended Christian boarding schools established by mission organisations specifically for their children.
So in two very different ways, David and I both grew up in churchianity.
When we met, we started attending the two churches we were comfortable with the local Baptist and the local Pentecostal gatherings. Neither one seemed a perfect fit, but we were okay with both styles we just wanted to learn more about God, find friends among other like-minded believers, and sing praise to God in the company of those believers.
Recently
Over the following years, our attitude to church didn’t change that much. We put up with the boredom, the politics, the loud sound-systems, the lack of meaningful relationships all in the hopes of finding God and connecting with other other believers.
But at about this time last year, while listening to one man preach, twisting what was written in the Bible to suit him and his co-workers, I started to wake up. I realised that I was willingly coming and subjecting myself to one “educated” man’s perspective on God, and it was taking the place of my own journey.
And if I couldn’t question the man during his preaching, could we enter into a dialogue afterwards? Perhaps if I could withstand his force of personality but it wouldn’t benefit the majority of the listeners, who would go away, having been told “how it is” by an “expert”.
Part of building a successful church is making people dependent on it. And we were dependent on our church. We felt like if we weren’t sitting in our seats on Sunday, we weren’t going to make it with God. Of course, we could easily rationalise one or two Sundays “off”, but a permanent detachment from the well-organised fellowship of believers? It seemed risky a sure way to start “back-sliding”.
We tried really hard with the various churches we attended. We submitted, we committed, we gave, we served. We invited people around for meals, we attended the church camps. And we kept turning up at the appointed time on Sundays.
Too often, we left church feeling disappointed. The fellowship hadn’t been that real, perhaps the sermon was lack-lustre or the music uninspiring. But we persisted because we believed that’s how we would grow closer to God!
Understanding
Slowly we realised that institutional churches promote a culture of religious conformity where we are all trying to prevent others discovering who we really are. In our hearts, we know that we fail to conform. We feel that we don’t belong, even though we’d like to.
So we are left with this unpleasant realisation that we must shroud who we truly are lest anyone discover that we don’t actually fit in that we aren’t actually as righteous as we appear. In doing so, our relationships with other church-goers are built around hiding our true selves and fashioned from the deceit necessary to pretend to be people we are not.
For us things took a turn. We started focusing on meeting with believers outside of church. Doing things with them. Travelling with them. Living with them. And we discovered what some of them were really like. They were human beings just like us holding in secret sins while striving hard to project an image of righteousness.
And this knowledge didn’t affect how we felt about them. On the contrary, we felt more love as we understood their struggles and shared our own.
But at the same time, we learned about the deep hypocrisies of the church. One could almost liken them to white-washed tombs. They sanction behaviours because of church politics, side with people for financial reasons and groom certain “chosen” individuals to the neglect of others. They dole out titles and positions in exchange for flattery and unpaid labour. Nepotism is rife.
Obvious sins are pounced on by the church leaders, but the more hidden ones like gossip, malice, ambition and greed are ignored. A woman can regularly threaten her husband with divorce and then on Sunday lead the congregation in a time of praise and worship to the One who ordained marriage and hates divorce.
Our church’s culture of conformity is killing the spirit of confession that leads to true repentance and revival. Small groups focus on reading through Bible-study books instead of reading Scripture and openly sharing sins, struggles and desires. The church’s programs suck the energy out of those with time and resources to donate so individuals can’t actually minister to those who have needs not covered by the programs.
I gradually realised that institutional church mainstream, evangelical, Bible-believing, Jesus-loving as it was is little more than a social club with regular get-togethers. We were making church life idolatrous. We were going to church to fill up on what only Father can fill up in us.
Church leaders have more to gain by making people insecure about their relationships with Father than they do by making them secure. If you believe that your relationship with God is boosted by church attendance, you’ll be there!
Instead of finding encouragement to fill up on Jesus, we are told to be in church. We will “miss out” if we aren’t there for a specific meeting. So many Christians have bought into the lie that “do not forsake of the gathering of yourselves” means you need to be in church on Sunday.
But life is found in Jesus and in no other not in church, not in theological study, not in friendship with believers! The reality is that Jesus is big enough to hold you up and lead you into all truth even without the backing of the religious institutions.
Getting out
As I’ve explained before, after all our realisations, we still didn’t leave the church. Despite our disquiet, we must have been too scared to move away from the religious practices that we’ve always known.
So Father gave us the nudge we needed. He led the leaders to kick us out. At first, they were polite. But they judged that David’s speaking out in church disrupting the sermon was sinful because it unsettled the church. David’s punishment was four weeks’ ban from church gatherings to allow things to cool down.
Four weeks passed and in the fifth week the leaders came to our house to determine if we were “eligible” for return. (We didn’t hear from them at all in the interim.) So the leaders came, judged David as unrepentant and refused to allow him to return until he showed sufficient remorse.
In defiance of them and as directed by the Holy Spirit (and you’ve got to believe me on this it wasn’t something he wanted to do), David walked into church one Sunday and sat down on a chair. This was something that he had done many Sundays previously and for 18 months at this particular church. The only difference was the attitude of the church leaders. They did not want David there, and they had him forcibly removed from the building.
It was with a lot of regret that we moved on from that group of believers. I experimented in being friendly to people from that church even the church leaders but only one family cared enough to maintain any contact with us. It’s so sad. The body of Christ should be united in love, regardless of the religious leaders’ stance!
Living in freedom
We praise Father for how he is so good to us. We have experienced greater depths of Christian fellowship outside the institutional church than we ever found when we were committed church-goers.
David and I have grown exponentially in the knowledge of God and are pursuing Him with great passion
away from the teachings of men. But more than that, Father has chosen to reveal Himself to us, to bless us abundantly, and to guide us into His truth.
I still have pangs of regret for the friendships that died when we left the institutional church. But I don’t miss the church meetings, the busy Sunday mornings, the white-washing of myself and my family so we presented ourselves well to all those other well-presented church-goers on Sunday mornings.
I’m so thankful that we’re free from church. I’m thankful that I will not bring my children up as Pharisees thinking that they have the truth because they listen to sermons on Sundays.
I used to go to church because I either enjoyed it or because I felt obligated to go. Now I don’t. Now I’m free.
1 · Heather · 5 September 2010, 10:23
AMEN! Absolutely and 100%. We are so very there with you, in that place. And it has been an amazing journey!
2 · beth @brew*crew · 5 September 2010, 11:25
I enjoyed reading of your journey (so far), and can relate on so many levels. We have been so thankful and amazed even to see how Adonai has led us in the last few years since He’s brought us out of mainstream churchianity, into a deeper dependence upon and TRUST in Him, as we dig deeper in His Word, waiting upon HIS orchestration of our relationships and leading into faith-fellowship as only He can provide.
And WOW< what a significant difference it’s been, though looking back I can also see how faithfully He did meet, lead and guide us all along the way, bringing us to where we are now, even in the midst of such a broken institution through His precious faithful therein.
May you be blessed, even as you and your family do seek Him and His Truth. I wanted to share this article with you, written by Wayne Jacobsen, that Robin had shared on her blog awhile back (with some good discussion in comments). Thought it might bless you. http://heartofwisdom.com/blog/why-i-dont-go-to-church-anymore/
3 · Sheryl · 5 September 2010, 11:49
I’m so sorry you’ve been mistreated by the institution of the church, Lauren. It hurts my heart. I wish I had words to help heal both you and David, but I don’t. I know God will provide healing, growth, fellowship, and acceptance. I love you!
4 · Tea · 5 September 2010, 12:39
Thank you for sharing your story. I’m glad I got to read it. I wish I could share more of my thoughts, but don’t feel like I can in such a public way. I’m so sorry you and your family experienced such difficult things within the church. Thanks again for sharing!
5 · Maxabella · 5 September 2010, 13:27
I hadn’t heard of the term ‘churchianity’ before, but it so sums up my feelings towards organised religion. I support your move away from this type of oppression. I can’t believe how ‘judged’ you were by your church. It’s ridiculous. Loving your god should never make you feel bad like that. I feel like you and I have enough of a friendship here in blogland for me to tell you that even though I grew up Catholic, I’m not really a believer in the ‘traditional’ sense of God and Jesus. I’m not disrespectful towards anyone’s spiritual beliefs and I believe everyone should be free to find their own path to spirituality. I just don’t have the Faith and that’s okay for me. I search for spiritual meaning in everything I do and say and I live my life by the principles that I grew up with. Your story is fascinating to me and I’m so grateful to you for sharing it. I’ll continue read the ‘back stories’ that I missed as I’m only quite new to your blog. In peace. x
6 · Amanda · 5 September 2010, 16:36
I’m sad that your experience has been this way. I don’t feel this way about our church at all. As the Pastor’s wife I try not to be too traditional, I hate stereotypes and don’t really fit in with a typical Pastor’s wife. I don’t see Christianity as religious unless people make it about rules and regulations, for me and our family its about relationship, our church is that way too. I don’t really understand what you mean about the mission field, I’m all for people sacrificing their own lives for the lives of others which is what most missio’s I know do.
7 · Rosemary · 5 September 2010, 17:44
Lauren, thanks again for sharing more of your experiences in life. I think that a lot of mainstream churches are now realising that they’ve got to let people be “real” and not hide behind masks that one needs to put on a Sunday! I am just sad that your church experience was one where you didn’t feel like you could be real with your fellow believers. I really love my church and though they are far from perfect I enjoy being with them immensely and so feel sad that you didnt get to experience that. I also wanted to comment on this: “Part of building a successful church is making people dependent on it”. It is God who builds the church and the true church should be about empowering people to go out and make disciples…once again it seems like your experience has been different to mine. I am truly sorry to read stories like yours.
8 · Dave · 5 September 2010, 17:52
Reading this brought on a mixture of reactions for me. On one hand, I’m sad that you and “the church” have had some negative experiences. On the other hand, I’m pleased that your reaction to these experiences has lead you to seek God even more, rather than allowing them to drive you away from Him like so many people have. I agree with you in some ways that the idea of church in our society has become twisted into some sort of social club, rather than a gathering of Christ’s followers. While I understand your reasons for being disillusioned with modern church culture, I also think that it is important to remain in contact with fellow believers. The reason I say this is that everybody has different insights and experiences relating either to the Scriptures or their personal journey. I believe it is important to share these with each other so as to help each other grow… even if it’s not under a steeple with a wooden cross on the facade. The bottom line for me is that you love God and want to be close to Him. I wish you much happiness in your journey.
9 · Virginia · 5 September 2010, 19:44
Hi Lauren I remember meeting you at the Daisy Hill koala sanctuary. I feel empathy toward you. When we moved here to QLD I began at a local church and try as i might i could not get connected, then we moved to the Gold Coast and two churches later still not connecting. There was absolutely zero community and fellowship after church finished on a Sunday. However I am glad to say I pushed on (as we, both my husband and I do not have any family here) and I am beginning to meet some lovely people since attending my new church. It is a process unfortunately, and as trust is built, i believe the relationships will follow, it depends upon actually being given that chance. I now trust God implicitely to lead me to whom we are meant to be around, as it is too much hard work striving to do it myself. But I feel it is so very important to give God the hurt every time it rises up to remind you of what has happened to you and your husband, as it must have been so painful to see Christians behaving like that. But God is your defender and He sees everything. I feel like I could reach in and hug you. Sometimes we are in places that are not God’s best for us, and it’s best to move on anyway. Bless you and yours.
10 · Tom Varney · 5 September 2010, 22:54
Greetings David and Lauren, and that beautiful family of yours. What a blessing to come across this site-Tonight I went into Google-and typed in Tom V and from there here I am-I believe tonight I was led by the Spirit of God-and what a blessing to know that we are not alone in this walk-the Lord is calling out His people all over the world. Barbara and I have drawn closer to God since we have long left the traditions of men-and once again we are being led by God-just as it was with us in the beginning of our comming out of darkness, into his wonderful Light. My testimony, From Gutter To Glory is still touching the lives of many,and my last booklet-The Gospel is Good News is now printed and available free. Thanks again David and Lauren for your fellowship in this manner-all our love in the Saviour of the World-Tom and Barbara-x x x x
11 · Christie · 6 September 2010, 07:29
Wow. I mean wow. I’m assuming ours is the“one family cared enough to maintain any contact with” you. You know I’ve valued our friendship, and I’ve told you before and I’ll tell you again that I love you but let me follow in the footsteps of this post and be blunt. This post hurt. I’ve forced myself to wait before responding to it so I could do it without tears and so I could do it without anger. In reality there is probably going to be a little of both but at least I’m trying. I have issues with a lot of this post but I’m going to focus on the “Getting Out” section of it. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I don’t agree with your views on Universalism and I don’t agree with what happened in church. I don’t believe that either you or David have taken any responsibility for what happened there. In our conversations since (and I’m the first to admit that we’ve both tip-toed around the issue) the message I get is that the two of you are 100% right with no fault (thus by default, everyone else involved must be in the wrong). And yet, you have tempered this by telling me countless times that you hold no grudge in regards to what happened, and that you love all involved (and David again reiterates this in the you tube post you linked to). But this isn’t a display of love. It’s not even just a factual re-telling of what you have personally experienced (this I would not take issue with). By linking to audio (that I am assuming was taken subversively), scanning a letter to the church family that includes the church name as well as the names of the pastors, and linking to David’s retelling of what happened – you’ve deliberately and thoughtfully attacked. Where’s the love you both talk about? Where’s the forgiveness that you say you’ve practised? Do you not recognise that all involved are just like you? Human? Christians? Searching for God? Longing to be closer to Him? Just because you feel that you’ve been enlightened and we haven’t don’t discount us. Don’t attack us. What’s the point of this post Lauren? Because as I’ve said, it’s gone beyond simply telling your story. Are you revelling in what happened? Do you take pleasure in picking the scab off an old wound? Do you need affirmation that what happened was horrible and what David did was right? Well you’ve certainly gotten that. Just remember something in all this will you? You weren’t the only ones hurt in this. You aren’t the only one who has cried.
12 · Dave Q · 6 September 2010, 09:04
My wife Larissa (www.larissaquinn.com.blog) referred your post on to me. I am reading about more and more people who are seeking more than just facing the front each week, having their names ticked off as attending, “being fed”, having “small talk coffee” afterwards and going their own ways. I have never felt comfortable with that idea of church and in fact I have always felt more comfortable in the mid week home group. It always felt more natural and real. While I don’t want to be someone who stands outside and throws stones at the “traditional church” as we know it, I am finding less attachment as I go on. Time will tell if this becomes un-churching for me/us as a family. Anyway, thanks for sharing your story.
13 · David · 7 September 2010, 20:08
Hey Christie, and others who are feeling sorry for us. We are not feeling hurt, we have no regrets about our time in Babylon. Being thrown out of the institutional church is one of the very best things that has ever happened to us. We love the specific way that it happened. Thank you so much to all those who rejected us. Truly, by your actions God has set us free. Our children will never be oppressed in the way that we have been. Jesus could not become the saviour of the world until the crowds yelled “crucify”. Praise God, and a deep, heartfelt thanks to his chosen instruments. We could not get out until we were thrown out. Love in Christ David Fisher
14 · Tea · 8 September 2010, 13:33
After reading your friend’s comment, I realise that this is a much more complex story than I had taken the time to think about and I am sorry (to God, to you and all of the people involved in this situation) that I have commented without understanding that. I probably should not have commented at all.
15 · That Crazy Mommy · 12 September 2010, 02:20
WoW so well put! Amen, Amen, Amen!
16 · Rosemary · 13 September 2010, 15:57
Lauren, I also came back to say that I didn’t actually read the “highlighted links” before commenting and like Tea I probably should not have commented, especially without reading the links in the first place! I read them a few days later when I saw Christie’s comments. The way your blog appears on my screen is different to some other blogs I read and so I just didn’t even think to click on them! Anyway, apologies to you and your friend Christie for getting into this discussion. I should not have, I am sorry!
17 · Christie · 13 September 2010, 21:34
Tea and Rosemary (and I’m speaking only for myself here)- please don’t feel that you need to apologize. I’m not at all offended that you did and I know that Lauren always enjoys hearing from her readers.
18 · EdenFire · 14 September 2010, 01:56
I followed the link posted on GJ to come here and read your story and see the video account David posted. You mentioned “sabbath” and “one true church” etc. in David’s upbringing so I just HAD to ask, was he raised seventh-day adventist? I had some dealings with that church when I first came to Christ at the age of 16. I’d been raised as a nominal Catholic, pretty much rejected it and Christianity as a whole until my first personal encounter with my Lord and Master Yeshua at the age of 16. After accepting Him and giving my life to Him (leaving the drug scene behind) I got snarled up with the SDAs and as a result of their false “gospel” (Galatian-heresy style legalistic twist on salvation) I actually ended up in a worse state than before — to the point of becoming inhabited by demons for the next 26 years.
The sad thing is, their variety of warped soteriology has become de rigeur even in churches that would reject their distinctive dogmas and roundly denounce them as a “cult”. The whole idea that somehow grace needs to be “balanced by” law (what???) or that grace exists to “enable us to keep the law perfectly” has been translated into endless denominational vernaculars and presented under the guises of “holiness”, “obedience to God”, “sanctification”, “fruit bearing”, “Christian maturity” and a host of other attractive labels designed to grab the attention of young and/or new believers in the faith struggling with the clamorings of their flesh and authentically yearning to grow in grace and serve God with their whole hearts.
Truly indeed did our Master express wisdom when He warned of the rise of false prophets and teachers who would bring deceptions of such a caliber as would, “if possible, deceive even the very elect.” Clearly He wasn’t talking about things those who consider themselves “the elect” would recoil from and eschew (such as drugs, sexual excesses, the occult, inappropriate media, whatever) but things that would entice and attract precisely on the point of that “elect-ness” itself. I think too many overlook this important and vital element in Master’s words and still scan the horizon for that Big Deception to come dressed in an obvious freakshow costume or something.
I am also, like David, of the Reconciliation Awareness. I originally entered it “through the back door”, so to speak, while inhabited because of my mistaken belief that I was in that condition because it was incumbent upon me to single-handedly effect the reconciliation of God and Satan. (Hey, if He can speak through a braying mule to Balaam He can use just about anything He wants to bring us into the truth, even our own follies and errors. And therein lies tremendous hope for us all, yes?) I spent a great deal of time fleshing out and formulating that understanding from scripture at a time when there were not other voices out there to aid and guide in such an endeavor, when Total Reconciliation from a Christ-centered perspective was unheard of and the only people espousing it were classic universalists who did not believe in the uniqueness or supremacy of Christ.
Anyway, just wanted to shout out in fellowship to you all. Master’s love and blessing on you and your family.
19 · Onyx · 15 September 2010, 08:53
Welcome to the freedom! I am running a forum for out-of-the-box believers at papashome.com, and would love to see some of my Ozzie brothers and sisters join us (I’m a Kiwi). Papa bless you and your family in this wonderful adventure!
20 · jcplanet · 4 November 2010, 12:45
Thanks for writing this. It echos alot of what I am going through in my own journey right now. Very insightful and encouraging.
21 · Jessa · 20 November 2010, 00:27
wow. Thank you for validating how I feel right now. THank you for sharing your story. Praise the Lord for freedom!
22 · Tamar · 22 November 2010, 13:42
Our experience is somewhat similar but not as extreme. My husband and I both knew that God was drawing us away from “churchianity.” It took several years (of attending our local church and a local messianic congregation that was meeting in a livingroom) but we slowly divested ourselves from leadership positions in the church and now our messianic home congregation has grown to the point where we are large enough to rent space at a local grange hall. Praise Yeshua for His mercy and the Holy Spirit for His gentle, patient heart work.
23 · a small potato · 23 December 2010, 21:54
Lauren,
Just stumbled on your new website, and caused me to reflect fondly on the times we used to meet at your place to study John’s gospel and what has happened since. It’s hard to be treated on the outer for so long, after 18 months at the last ‘church’ you were in we left, as you remember. We’ve given the new church we’ve been in a fair go at Mt Warren Park but the cycle has now done the full circle in these past 18 months. In process of disassociating with all institutional church at present.
It happened when I was 18, and it was 4 years before I darkened a church doorstep again. So this time [40+ years later] I doubt we’ll give it a go again.
.
I echo Kristi’s concern though, as the issue David interrupted the preaching over could have been left till after the meeting had closed – I’m saying this from what David had told me in person had happened. The preacher-pastor involved is a man I regard as being one of the most gracious Christians I’ve personally known, and I can’t believe his teaching would have been so ‘off’ to require interruption of his preaching.
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Compounding the situation of course was the fact that for some months David had been sharing the false doctrine of Ultimate Reconciliation [a type of purgatory & universalism mixed], one-on-one with individuals in the coffee break, which wouldn’t have won him too many friends back there I’d suspect.
Every person on earth has a theology of sorts, as theology is all about our understanding of God, gods & non-God. How well do we do our theology is of great importance, friend. UR is an heretical theology and it waters down the doctrines of God’s righteousness and divine justice. When brothers & sisters have a dalliance with such beliefs there is danger – for them and for those they influence.
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What we believe influences our attitudes and creates dispositions within us – and these are expressed in our behaviours. I sincerely doubt that the Lord has led David into this error.
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You both are loved greatly
24 · Gerard · 23 January 2011, 23:18
Hi
I don’t know anyone here, I am a Brit who came across this blog. I have only just read this one page and the comments, so don’t know anything about the politics or personal issues. I would like to say something about institutional church and following the Lord Jesus Christ.
I was a catholic as a youngster, at 20 years of age met other christians and became involved with bible reading and evangelicalism, pentecostalism, etc. I have been committed to several churches over the years, as probably we all have. (I am now 50). I know the emotional attachment that such a group affects in the contributing individuals/members.
However, I have come to a conclusion more drastic than the the rest of you in the comments. The church system is designed to DESTROY christians, not build them up. It is a manufacture of Satan, not God, and where kills any spiritual life in a person. We are to trust in the Holy Spirit guiding us, personally and individually, but this is never taught in a church, because the pastor would then loose control of the person. The church has taken the place of the Spirit. And even bible doctrine can take the place of the Spirit (don’t get me wrong when I say that, I am talking about peoples attitudes.)
God says we must have nothing to do with the works of Satan – apply that to what I have just said. And if you stay there what affect will it have on your walk with the Lord.
Don’t be confused or manipulated by your emotional attachment to a group of people – this happens when you commit yourself over a period of time to something – if it is wrong, it is wrong, you cannot put it right. Walk day by day with the Lord, and He will guide us.
I know churches do good works, have doctrines, etc – don’t be fooled by these. They are not necessarily from God. One piece of leaven leavens the whole lump!
And one more thought – my observation is that most church people don’t actually wan to follow the Lord Jesus Christ in truth, they want what church offers – he superficiality of fitting in with a group and feeling somehow morally superior. Few there are ……
Just my bit
Gerard
25 · Lauren · 24 January 2011, 11:44
Gerard,
Thanks for adding your comments. The longer it has been since we’ve left the church, the more we agree with you. We find our life comes from the Spirit and our teaching comes from the Bible, rather than the books sold by men.
Revelation 2:9: I know your afflictions and your povertyyet you are rich! I know about the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
Revelation 3:9: I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liarsI will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.
It’s been almost one year since we’ve been in church, and in this last year, we have come alive spiritually, conquered more sins and learned to discern the voice of the Father in many different places. We praise God for his faithfulness to us and could never go back to institutional church!
26 · Washington · 26 February 2011, 15:03
Really enjoy reading all of it, my wife and I are in the transition period, we are looking for a Messianic Sinagogue or group that is not too weird, we have come accrlss a few already. Anyhow we live in Qld 25 I’m from Brisbane love to hear from from truly Torah based groups
27 · a small potato · 27 April 2011, 08:47
Hi Lauren,
Interesting that you’re drawn to “learning from” Eckhart Tolle’s ‘New Earth’ – he is a spirituality teacher of the age of Aquarius/ new age/ new earth. Your link to the Amazon.com page for this book indicates a strong approval for his teachings. This is puzzling when just 2 comments above you’ve declared your teaching will only come from the Bible and not from the books sold by men.
Bible + New Age = syncretism.
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Aspirations for a new system of relatedness, are admirable. Yet it must be asked why look outside Christ Jesus for spiritual answers? Why look to a man who’s been called a Zen Buddhist for spiritual teaching? Why search out pages and pages of Universalism websites’ heresy?
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Theology is one of the most enjoyable fields of study, and every human is involved willingly and unwillingly in this great enterprise. If you read the New Testament and consider the views of Partial Preterism and Amillennialism (lots of free online books & articles are available from websites from these viewpoints) it is clear that the new Messianic age/ kingdom began 2 millennia ago. Philip Mauro may be a good starting point for this.
His New Covenant sealed the deal. It is a totally new way of relating – and even the laws of Christ are expressed differently to those of the Old Covenant [from which most of churchianity has derived its power in people’s lives]. Francis Schaeffer also touched on this in his very short book “The Mark of the Christian” which can be read online too.
It only takes about 17 hours to read through the whole NT. This must be our foundation for a Christ-centred worldview. And as you know, there are also some good online Bible schools you can study with while living the gypsy-lifestyle.
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Enjoy !!!!
28 · Luke · 21 June 2011, 18:33
Hi there David and Lauren. I’m pleased you’re enjoying Northland even though it’s getting cooler.
I’m still here in my tent.
I just wanted to let you know that I’ve read through some of your articles and seen some of the Youtube videos, and would like to say that I was quite concerned and thought it best if I said something.
Christians can have biblical disagreements with other Christians about things like the second coming, the rapture, future events, gifts of the Spirit etc. but we can still have fellowship with them.
The most we can hope to do is just agree-to-disagree about whatever topic it may be that we have different viewpoints on.
But, when there is disagreement about clear and important Biblical truth such as the person of Jesus Christ or the clear teaching of salvation and justification, then that changes things altogether.
If someone teaches a different Gospel from what the New Testament teaches, then that’s serious. Not only is it a different Gospel, but it’s also a different Jesus. The Gospel I believed was that Jesus died for my sins, rose again from the dead and offers me the free gift of eternal life by my faith in Him. I also clearly believed and understood that He saved me from a lost eternity…yes hell. Universal salvation is not the same Gospel (or the same Jesus) that I put my faith in all those years ago when I was 21. It’s a different Gospel.
The bible warns about this as …another Gospel (read Galatians 1:6-9). The false teachers in Galatia believed the same things as the true Gospel; Christ died for our sins, rose again, saved by faith in Him, brought into the family of God, God becomes our Father. But the false teachers in Galatia also added other false teachings; and thats the same with universal-partial punishment-salvation teachings.
If you get time, read the book of Romans. It’s clear how someone gets saved, what they get saved from, how God can completely pardon someone who is guilty and deserves punishment (justification). Universal salvation (or partial punishment universal salvation) is nothing new, but neither is it biblical. I’ve looked at the videos so you don’t need to explain things again here.
I’m only writing these words in love and concern, and in the hope that you repent from these false ideas and get back to the grain of the Word. I have nothing to gain from writing these words here, except to maybe gain you both in fellowship in the true Gospel. I realise that I may lose your friendship (which I do not want to lose) because of what I have said here. Perhaps if I hadn’t of come across your videos then maybe I wouldn’t of written this; but because thousands of people have been exposed to another Gospel, I felt it important to say something, because it’s not a small issue. If I can be of any help please let me know.
Much Love in Christ,
Luke
29 · Lusi · 23 August 2011, 07:48
Hi guys :-) found this post really interesting; we’ve been on a very similar journey. After being heavily involved in church, Yah opened our eyes to seeing His Word as one story. Sadly, the new direction we were moving in was not accepted by many. We were led to leave and while it was so hard and heartbreaking at that time, it was the best thing we ever did! Now we walk in true freedom! We read the Scriptures and put them into practice in our lives in the best way we can as the Spirit of God leads us…not because we are forced to by any man but because we love Him! We delight in the loving instructions Father gave us, His children, just like King David declares in Psalm 119.
Anyway just wanted to say I found your post refreshing.
Blessings,
Lusi x
30 · Bec · 19 September 2011, 01:52
Hi – everything you have said resonates so completely with me, and I have previously done exactly as you have (and so did Mark) for a while with total abstinence from the ‘institutionalised church’, but in the end I felt before and possibly even more so now, that at the end of the day Jesus still loves his church, however far it may stray and even though it is variously broken, fallen, unjust, ungracious, unloving, manipulative and ‘institutionalised’ and has often (not always of course) become pretty much what Jesus spoke out against, but yet he commanded his followers to love one another and be compassionate towards each other and, in the end, it is God’s own grace (not by anything anyone does or fails to do, including for those doing their poor best – or worst – to run or operate within institutionalised churches) that is sufficient.
I think most professing to follow Jesus would agree that the ‘real’ body of Christ (the real church) is not found in any buildings or in institutions, but in people with his spirit (who are usually imperfect, broken and fallen themselves – I’ll speak for myself anyway ;), where ever they may be, and yet those same people will also happen to end up in those buildings and institutions that can seem like peculiar and somewhat stifling ‘clubs’ at times, and so I feel (for myself) it is important to have and maintain a connection in some way (I am very bad at it, not very vocal or terribly friendly really, and Mark makes much more of an effort than I do), so I ‘confess’ I do still go to Gateway Baptist in Brisbane, Qld, and who knows what will come out of it, but I feel for the time being anyway that I am ‘meant’ to be ‘connected’ there somehow (but I still don’t feel at all obliged to go there at all as a ‘religious duty’ and in fact I do not go there every, or even every other, Sunday, so its all a bit sporadic – and I feel free to do that too). I’ll keep you posted :-P
31 · Mike · 2 November 2011, 04:56
I walked and died in the man run institution of churchianity for 16 torturous years before the Lord open my eyed to the evil that is really is. I’ve been out of Babylon church for 7 years and have been reunited with Christ. I despise that thing called church with every fiber of my being for what it does to believers and unbelievers alike. If anyone has any love for that beast they need to see it for what it is and that is a killing camp for God elect. The church also deceive the unregenerate spouses and children of the elect into thinking they are God’s when they are NOT! Going back to “church” is going back to the world and death and I hope no one does. Don’t start a church EVER, it’s not your to do so. If you have meeting that grow, split up to keep it small to avoid the temptation to organize God. If my tone offends anyone I make no apologies, this Christ walk is not a joke and not for wilting flowers.
32 · Nansie · 25 January 2012, 08:56
you might enjoy the book, “Why I don’t go to Church Anymore” by Wayne Jacobsen.
Sorry for your hurt.
Nansie
33 · Jenny Hobbs · 11 March 2012, 06:30
I was looking for a picture of my Maunga (mountain, TaraTara – and see you have stayed (or been at) Hobbs Road and photographed TaraTara (and my Mum’s house too) so thanks for the memory of that “place”.
I felt excited to see your treking into the bush and up the montains, I love the outdoors and miss my Northland land/sea/townships.
Then I saw you were believers in Jesus….who were walking the discovery route afresh….I came from a non-religious background, although many friends in my home location in the North were from Christian and mostly Open Brethren families. I had the privelidge to be able to “graze’ amongst them all and formulate my own spiritual development, independant of the discourses, expectations and so on that whirled around within the religious culture there. I was free to explore Egyptian Pyramid powers and Hippie communes in the 70’s – all were looking for a new way of being and of relating. In order to do this, most were railling a bit about what they had come OUT from in order to walk a new pathway. Many found that they eventually repeated some of the same oppressing ways and caused heartache to others, in their efforts to be so free and disentangled from their earlier lifestyles and the “words spoken over and to them” in their early lives. I have some unfortunate constraints and things in my early life too, but they were not religiously based….but after considering all philopsophies equal on my early journey – I finally found that Jesus saves, fills, satisfies, togehter with God and with the Holy Spirit awareness this all came alive to me.
I find it too, too critical spirited to write off the organised church establishments. Some of what yu have said speaks of hurt, confusion and mal-contentedness at work – and it is not that useful to repeat it all ad – nauseum to everyone. Many many people and couples have walked the same road as you, some have found this or that book or author who
“speaks” to them at these points in their journey – but I have to say that it is all an endless chasing after the wind in the end and that there is nothing new under the sun. Yes this is unique to you and healing and adventure-infused, for you, and yes you will learn lots along the way…..but take care not to simply replace (in the end) one binding dogma, with another that will bind just as much.
I say, Forgive, forgive and let go, be yourself and find your own “turangawaewae” as we say in New Zealand – this means “your place of belonging and your place to stand/the place where you have speaking rights.” This place is not necessarily on the ground, it is in your heart/soul/relationship to God and others.
Now, even though I say this…and it has certain meanings re. freedom and confidence, there are still cultural things and gender things that can mean one person has stonger rights than another…..every human group structure is flawed in some way, even if it is trying to be egalitarian all the way…..so no matter what church or religious thought group we engage with, this positioning will occur.
At the time when I was Open to religious thought, Jesus sent Christians who were a bit boring ans staid for me, but I could see they had loving intent…they were in a “Navigator” study group and looked into the Bible writings for a framework for living their lives and orientating their thinking. They didn’t have the outward display of the charismata or holy spirit, aligning with the logical rather than the “emotional” as they referred to it. The thing is, – they weren’t the perfect fit for me, but i didn’t try to change them (not much anyway ). I became well grounded in the Layout and history and writings within the Bible, and made some solid friends who have never “let me down”. I fended off a small family cult, a couple of cultish larger church groups and used my mind and my spirit to assess all that i came across. I never found the “perfect fit” but think that we just need to all chill out a bit and avoid acusing others too much…..we might asist them to review things when they get to that point, but criticising them full-on, like you have in your blog, speaks more to me of your own deep wounds and confusion than anything else. I found large format churches with charismatic engagement full of wonderful Christians some years, and met my wonderful husband at one of these. I flatted with 20 or so different Christian people with variations on their own religious background or non-religious upbringing (like mine)…..we, and they, are all on a journey….it they do not hear your line of enquiry about how things are, then just remain loving to them and move off to develop fresh fields for your own ploughing.
Grow up….you are fully free now, to do that, shake off the thiking that you were “taught” and instead open your heart to absorb many of these same learnings again, afresh and without the social and cultural pressures and expectations that come with them.
My husband and I now join with other Christians and do bits of this and bits of that….it might be a picnic at a lake, or a study on marriage, or visiting another church’s guest speaker….and even this is all imperfect. Lord requires that we do justice, love mercy and walk humbly with him.
34 · Jessica · 11 March 2012, 16:48
I came across your blog while looking for info about unschooling. We live in the US and this is our first yr homeschooling. Two of our children went to public school untill we felt God leading us to homeschool. Now that we have this new lifestlye we are trying to figure out how to make it unlike what they knew in public school, and also us growing up in public school. But I didn’t even have a chance to read about your unschooling experiences yet. This post caught my attention. We have not attended church regularly in almost 3yrs. I do believe there are lots of good people in churches, but I don’t think they are being taught the truth. I, personally do not want to go to church and hear how horrible I am and how if I don’t do this or that, then I am not pleasing to God. I think some churches have missed the point all together. We already know how horrible we are, why would Jesus come to die for us, why would we need saving, if we were good enough to do it ourselves? I want to be in a church where I am taught about God’s love for me through His Son Jesus and the finished work he provided for me on the cross! If we do not know who we are in Christ then we can never do what He asks of us. Most churches have it backwards, in my opinion, we are taught we must work to become righteous. But it is the Blood of Christ that makes us righteous, not our works. I have not yet found a Church in our cummunity that teaches me continually about Jesus. It is always about how I can be a better person. The only way I will be a better person is to behold Jesus, not my goodness! I do hope and pray that one day we will find a group that believes like us! I am glad I came across your blog, thanks for sharing and helping me see we are not alone!
35 · yeshe · 2 April 2012, 15:58
Hi. I love your blog and have enjoyed having a poke through :)
I am not a Christian but I appreciate your journey and just wanted to thank you for talking about it. Some of the Christians I know have had similar experiences and feelings and I hope through your words you help others to come to terms with what they are going through.
All the best to your and your beautiful family.
36 · Karen Loethen · 29 May 2012, 15:58
A super honest and amazing journey.
Thank you for such a personal post!
I am not a Christian, but I used to be one. I experienced the same need to follow where my ethics led me…that that was away from the oddly political nature of the church. And away from the subtle and not-so-subtle “isms” inherent in the church.
MUCH peace outside of the church.
Peace, Karen